Notes on a debate between Dr. Michael Brown vs Dr. Bart Ehrman

Fourth round - Questions from the audience

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Question to Dr. Brown - Are you saying that the answer to suffering is incomplete?

Response - - Dr. Brown -No - the Bible's answer is complete - - but part of the answer will never be fully realized in this part of the world. Part of the answer is in the world to come.....We don't have all the knowledge this side of eternity......

Question to Dr. Ehrrman - Since the definition of "good" and "evil" don't exist outside of Theism - doesn't this negate the exceptions you bring up?

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -I don't agree with the premise.....Good and evil are well outside the discourse of Theism......I have a firm idea of good and evil and don't believe in God.....My basic premise is anything that works well for another human being is good......anything that harms another human being is evil.......

Question to Dr. Brown - If free will is the answer to suffering then why does Scirpture say God causes suffering whether because of sin or to test humans?

Response - - Dr. Brown -God doesn't cause suffering to test human beings - - look at Jesus, the picture of God - - he constantly works to alleviate suffering - We suffer because we live in a world of sin...

Question to both - How does one become righteous?

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -righteousness and wickedness has to do with how we relate to one another.....

Response - - Dr. Brown -if you get away from the Scriptural standard you have subjectivisim......There are dictators that thought they would help their countries and they caused horrific suffering.....Standards are laid out in Scripture and that's the bar......

Question to Dr. Brown - If we were intelligently designed, why all the diseases?

Response - - Dr. Brown -we are a fallen race.....Choices that have been made have affected the whole world - - the choice of Adam bought sin into the world.....Human sin has affected everything......

Question to Dr. Ehrman - Is the Bible essentially true?

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -the Bible has different books that have different points of view - - some are more acceptable than other points of view.....I don't believe that "the righteous never go hungry"; I don't believe God killed people in Amos' day.... I don't think the Bible can be taken as a unit - - this si the problem I have with Michael's position - - he picks and chooses which views he wants to support because there are differing views in the Bible....He talks about morality - but he uses the New Testament and not the Old - - where if you "disobey your parents you will be stoned to death."

Question to Dr. Brown - Are natural disasters not suffering from God?

Response - - Dr. Brown -The Bible does not attribute all natural disasters to God......It's possible that some natural disasters are the direct result of human sin - - but I don't have the right to say that.....Jesus said regarding the tower that fell on people - - "were they any more sinful than someone else?" Romans 8 says that all of creation is groaning - - Romans 5 says death is the result for humans because of human sin - God made a perfect world - sin spoiled it - and in the world to come, sin will be eradicated....

Question to Dr. Ehrman - You say some are righteous, some are not; Romans 3 say none is righteous - can you explain?

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -I don't agree with the passage.

Question to Dr. Brown - Can you name an action that is moral and right that a Believer can perform that a non-Believer cannot?

Response - - Dr. Brown -this is the famous Christopher Hitchens question - the answer is many things - - one is - - I was on my knees praying for you to come to the Lord last night - something I'm certain you were not doing for me....

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -No - I hope desperately that you come and see the truth - - and I hope that someday you will....

Question to Both - Since God has evil characteristics - like killing people - can God and the devil be the same?

Response - - Dr. Ehrman - some older faiths believe that - - but the devil is a late comer - - He shows up after the Hebrew Bible period....Some explain suffering by saying that God is evil..... He burns people for trillions of years, he kills people - doesn't sound like some things a good person would do ...... But I don't believe that God or the Devil exist......

Response - - Dr. Brown - In Scripture, satan is a murderer - God puts to death righteously....What God does is just.....

Question to Dr. Brown - In a progressive revelation theology, why does God leave the answer to suffering to later?

Response - - Dr. Brown -Suffering is early in Scripture - in Genesis - man is created, he sins, God is grieved - that's a paradox - because God knew what was coming, yet He was grieved.....the entire Word provides answers to suffering...

Question to Dr. Ehrman - if there is no God, isn't there no objective moral standard?

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -there are millions of people who believe in God that have different moralities....So where is the morality based on God?.....The morality of God in Joshua chapter 6 was that the army of Joshua destroy all men, women, children and animals of Jehrico......God told them to do that - - - to slaughter the children! So - it's hard for me to believe if you have God you have morality....and if you don't have God you have immorality- - I just don't believe that....God is not the answer - - there are plenty of immoral and unethical people that have God - - and plenty of moral and ethical people that do not.....

Question to Both - Perhaps Christianity is not true but is a valuable balm for some?

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -Yes - if hope in their faith helps them be a better person, that's good.....There's empirical evidence that faith has helped people....I don't think it's based on truth - but good for them.....

Response - - Dr. Brown -People can find solace in varying faiths - - and even other "non faith" things- - However, the Bible is the truth and culminates in Jesus - and I would rather not believe than believe a lie....I would rather not find solace in a myth....I've gone to India for 16 years and I've seen the Gospel transform the lives of people of other faiths....

Question to Dr. Ehrman -

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -

Question to Dr. Brown -

Response - - Dr. Brown -

Question to Dr. Ehrman -

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -

Question to Dr. Brown -

Response - - Dr. Brown -

Question to Dr. Ehrman -

Response - - Dr. Ehrman -

Question to Dr. Brown -

Response - - Dr. Brown -

Second - - Dr. Ehrman -

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